[quote="GelatinousOctahedron"]

Night At The Roxbury:
Tricks For Multiple Defender Parties

What do you do if your small party has two defenders?  What if you have even more than two?  Here are some tips for forcing mark punishment and for powers and tricks that work well when you have more than one defender in a party.  Each one varies by class since defenders can defend both through powers and class features, bur this should get you started:

 

Focus on powers that let you defend or punish even without marking.  This lets your ally punish through his marking feature.  Often forced movement and status effects like slow or immobilized will let you do this.

 

 

If you do plan to mark often, then make your mark punishment more severe than normal.  With multiple defenders the DM may be forced to violate your mark if he wants to attack anyone that round if another defender has him tied up without marking.  Only one defender probably wants to do this, but again it depends on what classes you are playing.

 

 

If your defender ally has long range punishment, through their mark mechanic or otherwise, consider forced movement.  Most defenders can push/follow, slide, or pull fairly often.  If you have an ally that can punish at range like an assault swordmage, chaladin, lightning rushing battlemind, etc., then forcing the enemy next to you and away from them can help to trigger the punishemnt.

Take powers that force enemies you haven't marked to attack you or someone else instead the ally that marked them.  Lightning Rush and Dimensional Vortex are two of the most notable examples of this.  With lightning rush for instance you can trigger a warden's use of warden's fury, a paladin's divine challenge, or a fighter's combat challenge.

Immediate attacks that punish enemies for going after your allies are your friend.  This is something that almost all defender builds can do and it doesn't hurt if more than one defender loads up on these.  Often it even works better that way.

Many of these tricks are even more viable with hybrid builds.  Assault swordmages improve the best part of their mark punishment when they hybird with a big hitting class like warlock, barbarian, or ranger.   Hybrid chaladins can load up on mark punishment and get ranged powers from a class like warlock, cleric, or sorcerer so they can maintain their challange at range.  Hybrid wardens can focus on the powers that isolate enemies from other PCs without marking to let allies focus on marking and mark punishment.

 

 

You might want to look into a non standard weapon.  Either going for a big superior two hander to boost your damage if you are going to be hitting hard with immediate/OA powers or going for a reach weapon of some sort might be a good idea.  A paladin can hide behind the other defender maintaining divine challenge with a reach weapon for instance.

This thread and its title were inspired by an earlier thread and comment when a DM was asking about what to do with his new 5 person party where 3 people were playing a paladin, battlemind, and warden.

Note on power recommendations.  These are not always the best powers to take for your build and this isn't meant to be a comprehensive guide to each defender.  They are sometimes powers that don't normally get blue or skyblue rating that you should take a look at for multidefender parties because they have a niche use when another defender is in the party.

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[quote="GelatinousOctahedron"]

Fighters, Paladins, and Wardens

 

Fighters (weaponmasters)

 

 

Tactics

A lot of your best features come with combat challenge so you might need to adjust for this since you tend to punish adjacent enemies and enemies you have marked.  The good thing is that you have total control over who you mark and don't mark and you can still defend even when not marking.  What you lack for in class features you make up for with a wide selection of powers that will help your allies to punish targets you have stuck next to you.  You have a couple at will forced movement powers and you have a lot of other powers that can slow, immobilize, prone, or force move. 

You can do polearm or flail shennanigans as well since you have less trouble qualifying for the needed feats.  Fighters have two main directions they can go that they need to pick from early on: reach weapon (probably glaive, spiked chain, or great spear) or 1-H talent with shield.  A lot of your potential powers require you to be using a shield and a few require a reach weapon and polearm master is a good path to look at.  You can also go with a big 2-H non reach weapon if you want to sacrifice trade some control for damage and their is a little support for dual wielders.

If you are going shield consider the phalanx warrior feat, along with the various shield utility powers like Phalanx Leader, Stalwart Guard, and Interposing Shield to protect allies who mark your enemies.

 

 

Another good fighter trick with multiple defenders is playing a brawler fighter.  A brawler fighter can pin down an enemy very well without ever needing to mark him, which means he can work effectively with ranged punishment or aura defenders.

Powers to consider

 

 

Footwork Lure At will. This lets you move an enemy marked by another defender away from that defender and puts you in between.  This is one of the best fighter at will powers even without another defender in the party, but I would almost always take this in a 2 defender party.

Tide of Iron At will. If I wasn't taking Footwork lure, I would be taking this instead.  Push with a shift.

Grappling Strike At will. Grapplers can tie up an enemy without marking him.  If you go this route, you will really focus on this.

Knockdown Assault At will. At will proning means the enemy will have a hard time getting away without you having to mark it.  At higher levels you can get proning fairly easily from things like flail expertise or world serpents grasp so you might retrain it out later, but for low level fighters it is sometimes a decent choice.

Shield Riposte 1 (encounter) Fighters have a couple powers like this that require you to have a shield and punish enemies who attack allies next to you.  You don't get enchantment of expertise bonus, but it targets fortitude.  This pushes with a shift, but it is a reaction power.

Glowering Threat Strong penalty for enemies that attack your allies, but doesn't mark.

Get over Here 2 This pulls a marking ally away from an enemy and lets you get next to them.

Immediate Vengence 3 This one is only ok.  It doesn't get any enchantment or expertise bonus, but its an interrupt that targets fortitude and is only level 3.  Weakens as an interrupt with some damage when someone attacks a neighboring ally.

Reaver's Hook 3 It can shift/pull an enemy off of a marking ally if you are using an axe or pick

Parry and riposte 3 A reaction to an enemy missing an ally.

Hounding Longarm 5 A reach weapon power that lets you punish enemies who at attack your allies at range 2, which is normally something fighters struggle with some.

Pinning Smash 5 Fighters not using a reach weapon should consider this.  It immobilizes an enemy as long as it is next to you without you needing to mark it.  Lets allies load up on ranged mark punishment.

Knights Challenge 6 this is a no attack enemy pulling power.

Come and Get It 7 This is already probably the best fighter powers there is.  It also encourages enemies violate allies marks without requiring you to mark.

Savage Parry 7 This interrrupt punishes enemies who attack adjacent allies.  Unfortunately the punishment is not that great and it is the same level as come and get it.

Shield Bearer's vendetta  13 This is one of the better shield interrupt powers since it is multitarget with shift.

Defender's Gambit 15 Provokes attacks from enemies marked by allies

Cruelest Chains 17 This is a reaction power that gives the enemy the choice to shift next to you or give you a boost to your next damage roll against them.

Tap and Counterstrike 17 You need to be dual wielding, but it lets you punish enemies at short range.

Strike Of The Watchful Guard  19 Attack adjacent enemies who attack your allies for the encounter.

Undeniable Challenge 22 Up to two targets have to attack you for a round.  Requires they be marked when you use it, but allies can then override the mark.

Turnabout Riposte 23 This interrupt lets you shift and attack an enemy who attacks an ally.  Effect reduces the damage.

Warrior's Urging 23 Upgraded come and get it.

Gash and Goad 27 A good way to pull an enemy off a marking defender.

Final Challenge 29 Reaction that forces an emeny within 4 to move to you so you can attack them or you get to charge them. 

 

 

Knights

Not as good as weaponmaster fighters, but better than cavaliers at least.  Defend the line is a stance that slows, so that works for helping allies with slow exploits.  Hammer hands gives you some forced movement so that can push enemies away from defenders that marked them and set up punishment for enemies coming close to you.  Bludgeoning staff and Staggering Hammer both open up options.

 

 

 

 

Paladins

 

 

 

 

Tactics

Your divine challenge and many times divine sanction can be applied from a distance and the punishment occurs from a distance.  To sustain divine challenge over a long time you either need to be adjacent to the enemy or you need to attack it, but you can do that through ranged attacks, which paladins have some, or you can do it through thrown weapon powers or ranged implement powers you get from another class.  The classic half-elf dilletante eyebite trick works here since you can eyebite the enemy from range and that makes it hard for the DM to attack you, even while marked by you.  But at this point you can get good ranged attacks from dilletante, your theme, or through regular multiclassing.

 

 

Chaladins/baladins tend to do better than staladins in power selection for these situations, although straladins can more afford to focus on damage boosts for big hits.  Straladins generally want to go for the big weapon powers since that makes them a bigger threat without forcing them to be sticky.  Another big difference is that charisma powers tend to pull enemies, while strength powers tend to push enemies.

Powers to consider

Enfeebling Strike With power of trickery you or an ally can shift away with this at will.  And if you mark and shift the enemy is at -4 to hit your defender ally next to him with potenital divine challenge punishment.   If your ally marked it, it is next to you alone with potential punishment from your ally.

Virtuous Strike This at will is here because with Power of Arcana you can you do WLR and WLMR tricks with it.  Its a hefty feat investment, but potentially worth it.

Bolstering Strike With power of earth this at will slows if you are going for slow/immobilization synergy. 

Fortune Spurned Smite 3 This forces the enemy to moves its speed when it takes damage, which will provoke OAs and make it harder to attack you the next round.  Its str or cha.

Price of cowardness 7 Interrupt that blinds an adjacent enemy who attacks your ally.

Knightly Intercession 9 Interrupt for staladins that lets you pull an enemy 10 squares away from you when it attacks an ally.

Ray of Reprisal 9 Close burst 5 interrupt when an ally is hit.  I like knightly intercession more, but this is for chaladins.

Compel Obedience 13 a Single target shift/pull for a chaladin

Letherna's Hounds 13 A close burst pulling/prone power.  Solid non-mark defending for a chaladin

Avatar of Undaunted Bravery 15 Straladins get to pull an enemy each round.

Liberation 16 an ally pulling and healing power 

Demand Respect 23 A close burst 10 interrupt for chaladins that prones and blinds when they attack an ally.

Champions Call 23 a close burst 5 that automatically pulls multiple targets.

Discipline the unruly 25 The sustainable effect from the attack blinds and does radiant damage when any nearby enemy attacks an ally.

 

 

 

Cavaliers

 

 

Cavaliers are probably the trickiest defender to work into a multidefender party and would be my last choice for a second or third defender.  They don't bring much to the table.  Their defender's aura does not work on marked enemies so at least you will not be overriding marks.  Your powers are not good for a multi defender team.  There are somethings that will work, but generally you will sit there while your allies force the DM to trigger your Righteous Radiance.
 

 

 

Wardens

 

 

Tactics

Wardens generally more defend through their powers more than through class features.  Your class features make you tough, even for a defender, and unlike most other defenders you can usually only mark adjacent enemies.  Your defender tricks come from things like having an at will melee 2 pulling power, being able to create difficult terrain, shifting towards enemies, and by immobilizing and slowing enemies.

For several of your defender class features to work you need to have enemies marked.  Warden's Fury and Warden's Grasp require the target to be marked.  The second wind punishment for stormheart and wildblood require your enemies to be marked, but the second wind bonus for earthstrength and lifeblood does not.  Wildblood second winding is serious debuff that will almost force enemies to target you and after second winding allies can override your marks on the target.

 

 

Powers to consider

You are generally going for powers that put enemies next to you without necessarilly marking them.  This includes forced movement and you shifting towards them.  Once next to you, you will want difficult terrain, slowing, dazing, and immobilizing powers so they can't get away and are forced to attack you or not attack at all.

Thorn Strike At will This can pull enemies marked by someone else next to you. Already one of the better warden at wills. 

Weight of the Earth This is an at will slow.  Again, one of the better warden at wills already.

Grasping Winds 1 (enc) If you don't have thorn strike, you will want this mass pulling power.

Hungry Earth 1 (enc) difficult terrain power

Form of Winter's Herald 1 (daily) Difficult terrain and an immobilizing attack

Earth Shaking Rend 5 zone of difficult terrain that prones.

Rampant forest 5 This lets you generate a lot of difficult terrain for your enemies.

Guardian's Pounce  7 This is a solid warden power already.  A reaction that lets you shift next to an enemy who enters a square next to an ally.  A hit lowers its attack.  Forced movement should trigger it.

Mountains Stature 7 I would be reluctant to not go with guardians pounce, but Earthstrength Wardens with reach weapons can pull multiple targets next to them with this power from 3 squares away. 

Stalactite Hook 13 If you didn't get thorn strike then this is ok. It also slows so it is kind of a combined weight of the earth and thorn strike with more damage.

Drown in Mud 13 Another difficult terrain power, with immobilizing.

Form of the Crushing Mountain 15 This daily form makes it hard to escape from you and hard to damage you.  And the attack is a close burst 3 pull.

Leap of the relentless hunter.  17 Sort of like Guradian's pounce, but it has to be marked.

Wardens Lure 17 Another close burst pull, followed by a slide.

Form of the Entangling Spider 25 A big difficult terrain area around you for the encounter with an restraining power. 

[/quote]

[quote="GelatinousOctahedron"]

Battleminds, Swordmages, and Barbarians

Battleminds

 

Powers to consider

Every other one has tactics first, but with battleminds your powers are your tactics.  Lightning rush being the big one.

Conductive Defense 1 Punishment for attacking allies without marking

Allies to Enemies 1 (daily) This makes an enemy attack someone besides your defender.  It won't trigger your mark punishment, but will trigger your allies theirs

Lodestone Lure 3 Excellent pulling power with range or melee 2-5, without overriding marks.  And with extra proning/stickiness with augments.

Spectral Legion 3 immobilizes.  Sticky without marking at low levels.

Lightning Rush 7 Interrupt that hits enemies hard for attacking an ally and forces the enemy to trigger whatever mark punishment is coming to them.  The key power for you. 

 

 

Dazzling Assault 17 If you do mark an enemy, this interrupt slides and immobilizes them.

Ruinous Grasp 17 This lets you force move and then immobilize an enemy next to your ally.

Might of the Ogre 23 Proning and provokes OA when standing up.  You like provoking OAs.

Psychic Hammer 25 A daily Dominate (save ends).  Defenders normally don't get domination straight up without hybridding or through tricks like Royal Command of Asmodeus.

Mind of Mirrors 27 a dominate when augmented

Tactics

Thankfully battleminds do some of their best work by marking one target and then attacking another one.  You don’t need to be sticky to be effective and want your enemies to attack your allies.  You also have a lot of powers that force move and then slow or immobilze enemies.  You can move one next to another ally and then lightning rush them.  Battleminds are easy to build for multiple defender parties, especially once you hit level 7.

 

 

 

 

 

Swordmages

 

 

 

 

 

Tactics

These are tricky since your punishment is marked based.  You can fire and forget your mark, so if the other defender immbolizes an enemy it is in trouble.  There might even be uses for ensaring swordmages here since that can trigger things like lightning rush in later rounds, but a hybrid assault swordmage/melee striker with a big weapon is perfect for this.  And a shielding one means your ally isn’t getting hurt.

Also white lotus riposte and white lotus master riposte potentially even better than normal since you don't mind not marking the target as much.  Think paladin marking from range with you in between the marked enemy and the paladin.

Powers to Consider

Booming Blade At will stickiness without marking

Lighting Lure Pull an enemy marked by an ally at ranged 3.

Luring Strike At will Slide an enemy marked by an ally. 

Arcane Lance This is better for you than on a typical swordmage.  Slows with reach 2 and you can charge with it.  If you are going for slowing tricks in your party it is worth looking at, but swordmages have many other good choices for at wills.

Firgid Blade Not quite slowing at will, but it can be a decent slowish debuff.

Dimensional Vortex 3 Ranged 10 interrupt.  Ally is hit by melee attack and you teleport the enemy and it has to attack someone else, including you.

Reaper's Challenge 15 An interupt that weakens the enemy for the encounter if it doesn't attack you.

Surprising Transposition 17 Another teleporting interrupt for when an ally is hit.  You can switch places with an ally and get hit by the attack

 

 

Berserkers (barbarians)

Tactics

Berserkers are interesting since they are sort of designed to work as a second defender.  You have a defending aura that you can turn off at will, so you generally work well with allies that want to mark their targets like swordmages and paladins.  You also work well with allies who have powers that redirect attacks to themselves.  A battlemind/berserker pairing with two big superior weapons could be a significant threat with the battlemind lightning rushing the enemy, who is then subject to your vengeful guardian attack.

You probably want to invest more on the striker side since you probably won't be as defendery as a berserker who is acting as sole defender.  You will generally want enemies to stick next to you the first few rounds of a fight and then switch over to striker mode when you want to finish off enemies.  Berserker is also a good choice if you are not sure who your allies are going to be, which can be common in things like LFR.  Primal powers are marked with a P since they make you enter your berserker's fury.

Powers to Consider

Aggresive lunge A push shift at will power

Run Down A slowing at will

Batter Down 1 enc. Proning means sticky without marking.  You might switch this out once you get world serpents grasp

Shout of Terror 1 enc. P This slows in a close blast.

Bloodseekers Rage 1 P Daily Enemies who shift away from you provoke.

Implacable Advance 3 Another sticky without marking power.  Shift next to the target if it moves

Hammer Fall 3 P A proning attack vs fort.

Brutal Slam 3 P A push prone attack

Rippling Blades 3 P If your defender ally is next to the target, not a bad way to activate striker mode

Earth Grasp Rage 5 P Immobilizes and prones and you do extra damage to immobilized or proned enemies.

Thuderhawk rage 5 P A dazing attack that lets you try to prone an enemy 1/round.

Deny Escape 7 An immobilizing power.

Curtain of Steel 7 P A good way to turn off your defender funtion.  Its an interrupt for solid damage when someone attacks you.

Flying Serpent Rage 9 P If your DM likes to charge your defender allies, this is a good way to enter a rage.  Its an interupt that will punish enemies that charge.  You can also take further actions after you charge.

Stoneroot Rage 9 P Slows (save ends) and you get damage resist.

Eye of the Maelstrom 9 If you have a non-marking defender ally like a battlemind this is a good daily choice for you.

Wrath of the Storm 9 A prone/push as an effect.

Black Dragon Rage 9 P Blind is a good debuff for an off defender.

Oak Hammer Rage 9 P Automatic proning when you hit.  I think this is going to create a lot of catch 22s when enemies are unable to get away from you.

White Tiger Rage 9 P Enemies will be automatically slowed when next to you.

Rage of the Battle Tyrant 9 P This lets defender allies shift away from the target so they can range punish it. 

Circle of battle 10 enc. This is really good for when you have an ally with a ranged punishment next to the enemy.  And you potentially immobilize the enemy.

Drive to the ground.  13 A sliding proning power.

Storm Of Blades 13 P Three attacks against one target.  Another good way to switch to striker mode.

Slash at the Knees 15 Close burst immobilize.  I would rather rage most of the time, but this does not trigger at least.

Iron Hammer Rage 15 P When combined with polearm momentum this is a good proning rage.  Your attacks push 2.

Tidal Rage 15 P Lots of good sliding with this one.  That sets up ranged punishment

Distracting Advance 16 enc. Similar to circle of battle.  Lets defender allies move away from marked enemies.

Mountain Grasp 17 P an immobilizing power where the target grants you CA.

Shoulder Slam 17 P A multitarget attack that pushes and can be used on a charge

Threatening Fury 17 P This one is worth taking if you have a way to get the target to stick next to you first.  If you have WSG or another trick this will punish them when they try to escape.

Unavoidable stalker 17 Lets you shift next to the enemy its next turn.

Arcing Throw 23 P This lets you attack an enemy at range and slow them for good damage

Crater Fall 23 P A push prone power with the potential to prone a bunch of enemies if you use it on a charge.

Cutting THe Path 23 P A good power to use when you have enemies bunched up around you.

Staggering Strike 23 P Vs fort with stunned.

Keep it down.  27 Prones and provokes OAs when it stands up

Bone Breaker 27 P An interrupt when an enemy moves away from you.

Butchers Feast 27 P This is like Threatening Fury.  If you have a way to get enemies to stick next you, you will be doing a good bit of damage with this.

Hurricane of Blades 27 P One of the better ways to come out of defender mode.[/quote]

[quote="GelatinousOctahedron"]

Themes

 

Guardian This is an obvious one because of the interrupt encounter power.  You become the target of an attack that targets an ally, but not you.  This can trigger everything from divine challenge to lightning rush because it changes the targetting.  And you get an MBA out of it.  The rest of the theme isn't bad either.

 

 

Paragon Paths

 

 

Polearm Master For the reach weapon/forced movement strength builds out there. 

 

 

Teamwork and Synergies

 

 

Things that can potentially help any defenders:

 

 

Exploit slow and immobilize.  Viscious advantage and grasp of the world serpent.  All defenders can fairly easily slow and immobilize even at low levels and often with at will powers, except for the cavalier.

Consider Boosting your OAs.  Agile opportunist will help with defenders that have powers that force move allies.  Your defender allies can have powers like Get Over Here, Quick Switch, and Liberation can trigger OAs if you do take that.  Other OA boosting feats like sudden roots are also a possibility.

Battleawareness  Any non-fighter can take this if they qualify.  It is punishment without marking and opens up fighter feats

 

 

Polearm Gamble/momentum with one defender is nice.  With two or more and you are potentially playing ping pong and many defender builds will want a polearm anyways.  You can do similar things with dragging flail.  MC Fighter is a good option for non-fighters because of the feats like these it unlocks along with Polearm Master paragon path.

Proning Prone enemies next to you often have a hard time attacking someone else, even if you are not marking them.  The most common ways for defenders to prone are powers that directly prone, world serpent's grasp, flail expertise, and polearm momentum.

Domination tricks.  Normally defenders don't dominate and domination is one of the big ways to help in multi-defender parties.  Battlemind is the only one with any domination powers, but there are other ways to get it.  A few paragon paths have dominatio powers.  The big other way is in epic with Royal Command of Asmodeus, which turns stuns into dominates, but requires you be a tiefling.  Defenders do have acceess stunning attacks.  Champions symbol is a good option for chaladins, though it is only a daily power.

 

 

Non-defender Powers: Ally Powers, Power Swaps, And Hybrid Ideas

 

 

Making Enemies Attack:
One way for you to punish enemies is with powers that force them to attack someone else.  If you dominate an enemy (stun+royal blessing of asmodeus as mentioned above) you can make them attack an enemy or the other defender and then trigger mark and other punishments.

Ardent: Unconsious Assault.  This level 27 power forces the target to attack someone else as an effect.

Cleric: Fey Beguling.  This level 7 cleric power prevents enemies from attacking you.  If they want to attack someone they need to trigger your punishment.  A hybrid fighter or paladin could get some use out of this.  

Monk Drunken Monkey.  A dex defender build can use this to potentially trigger multiple attacks.  Monks have a couple powers like this.

What can your allies do?

Force Move people in between two of you.  Even better if they can use moves that don’t count as forced movement like domination or powers like cause fear/deadly lure since those can provoke OAs from both of you. 

Force Attacks Domination is not common at low levels, but hypnotism is an at will power. Decree of kirald is a a level 1 warlock daily power that does this and rogue have confounding attack at level 1. Searching for "target makes attack your choice" in the compendium brings up dozens of powers that do this.

Be Willing to Provoke OAs  It is worth it when you know 2 or 3 defenders are going to punish the enemy if the DM goes for it.  Having allies like worldspeaker shaman boosting your defenses against OAs or an artful dodger rogue who is hard to hit with OA's doesn't hurt, though your DM may give up.

[/quote]

[quote="GelatinousOctahedron"]

Links to Builds and Ideas

Raging Teleporter  My assault swordmage/barbarian hybrid.  Hits real hard with his mark punishment, but not much else in defending.

Set hammers to stun  This is a fighter/paladin build that is based around multiple uses of stuns and eventually dominates.  Not very mark dependent in its punishment, especially at higher levels and can force enemies to disobey marks pratically at will in epic.

Pocket Protector A pixie stealth knight that hides in allies squares.

Defending Can be a Two Person Job  A similar older handbook.

Sample Baladin as a Second Defender

Here is a Dragonborn baladin mc warlock/questing knight/destined scion build that has mark punishment it can easily sustain at range along with lots of marking.  Good for a warden ally or other sticky ally without mark punishment.  Works ok with a lightning rushing battlemind as well since enemies will want to attack you.  Decent off leader as well. 

 

 

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